Episode 28: Mega Churches

Top of the show 

Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us. This is valid arguments. A show that will save your everlasting soul, for the low low price of $6.66. I’m Jeremy Horton, and Today were going to be talking about Mega churches! We will also be arguing about History and aliens. Joining me today is Mr. Milo Mordhorst on my right. (Milo intro). And Mr. Joel Barkley on my left. (Joel intro). Thank you both, now I will get into the questions in a minute, but first 1lets have a word from our sponsor. 

Questions I will ask: 

  • A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. It basically means that what you put out into the universe is what you’ll get back. I want to start there because that verse is the mantra of most motivational speakers, yoga instructors, and Instagram influencers. And it’s beautifully vague. Which is why it’s the perfect verse to describe Kenneth Copeland. He is best known for preaching his version of the gospel dubbed the prosperity gospel. He ignores all the bad parts and skips right to the saving. He’s second best known for tax evasion, reckless use of church funds, being skeptical about Vaccines, and telling his followers that they would be guilty of murder! If they did not vote for Trump. my first question is, would he get a pass on all this if he wasn’t 2,000 years old? 
  • as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. I love that verse. It comes from Colossians 3 12. it’s about clothing yourself with the gospel and goes on to relate it to how we treat each other. Beautiful. But I want to talk about another kind of clothing. I think at this point we’ve all heard of the Instagram account preachersnsneakers. They post pictures of megachurch pastors next to the price tags of their clothing. This was eye opening to me. To see mega bro Chad Veach sporting a 2k laptop bag and $800 pants is a little unnerving. So, I have to ask is wearing expensive clothes as a mega church pastor unwise? 
  • Palette cleanser/segment – Did humans and dinosaurs live at the same time? 
  • Alright. Let’s talk about Joel Osteen. This man is the pastor of the largest mega church in America, Lakewood church. He’s the closest thing Christians have to a celebrity with the exception of Kirk Cameron. He even has celebrities like Kanye, Mariah Carey, and Orpah, attending and performing at his church. The church seats almost 17k people and is attended by approximately 52k people weekly. There really isn’t a whole lot of bad I can say about Pastor Osteen So let’s attack his greed.  He reportedly does not take a salary from Lakewood of which he is entitled to 200k. He makes all his money from the sale of his books which have sold over 8.5 million copies. the church has an annual budget of 90 million. It spends $31.7 million on its weekly services and programs, $6.7 on the church’s Night of Hope events, and $25.1 million on its television ministry. $11.5 million on administration, and another $11.9 million for fundraising. And the remaining $1.2 million was spent on mission and outreach. That 1.2 is still pretty significant as the only organizations that beat that are the united way, salvation army, st Jude, and the catholic church. So, my next question for you guys, how much money should Joel Osteen make? I know it’s too much, just give me a number. 
  • let’s take a break from mega church pastors specifically talk about the don of the Christian mafia, Pat Robertson. You may know him from his show the 700 club, but he owns several media companies that all are blatantly pushing a specific agenda. Robertson’s controversial comments include blaming gay people for hurricanes and other natural disasters, claiming Haitians worship the devil, and Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. He also owns about 1bn in assets, mostly in the media sector. That’s troubling to me because the rhetoric spewed out of his ancient mouth hole is for the most part how the world views all Christians. Maybe this is a leap but I think most of the Christian world would find comments like that incendiary. Do you guys think Pat Robertson’s comments are incendiary or are they pretty on point? Favorite incendiary quote. 
  •  Palette cleanser/segment – If aliens came back, would we believe them? 
  • We’ve talked a lot about money and personal branding of mega church pastors, so now let me tell you a story about Pastor John Lee bishop. Pastor Bishop runs living hope church in Vancouver WA. They run the church out of what used to be a Kmart, and it’s home to some 8,000 people. He was recently arrested trying to smuggle 280lbs. of marijuana across the Mexico border for the cartel. His son dealt heroin and meth out of the church to congregants, and his hero is the late Billy Graham. My next question, are mega church pastors taking the whole “cool pastor” thing too far? 
  • My last question is not about mega churches but about Christianity specifically. This is the book of Genisis, Chapter 6 verses 1-4. When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the Sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. It’s believed that the sons of god were a different sect of Adam and Eves children. But some Ancient Astronaut theorist Think the Sons of God may have been visitors from another planet. In the book of Enoch which is considered apocryphal by the Christian church Genesis 6 is expanded to say that the sons of god are a group of 200 angels called the watchers that bred with humans and helped them gain comprehension of modern living techniques. This angered God, he warned Noah, and we all know the rest. Honestly, doesn’t that make much more sense then There were people, Then God flooded the place? 
  • Palette cleanser/segment –  
  • how do we solve this? 

Argument for: 

  • . Repent the end is near! 
  •  Repent the end is near! 
  •  Repent the end is near! 
  •  Repent the end is near! 
  •  Repent the end is near! 
  •  Repent the end is near! 

Sources: 

Key groups: 

Key people: 

  •  Kenneth copeland 
  •  Pat Robertson 
  •  Benny Hinn 
  •  Joel Osteen 
  • Creflo Dollar 

Key Movies:  

  •  risen 
  •  Believe me 
  •  Gods not dead 
  • Netflix’s various renditions of biblical books. 

Argument Against 

  • .burn the preacher! 
  • . burn the preacher! 
  • . burn the preacher! 
  • . burn the preacher! 
  • . burn the preacher! 

Sources: 

Key people: 

  •  Bill Mahr 
  •  Richard Dawkins 
  •  Sam Harris 
  •  Michael Martin 

Key groups: 

  •  American Athiests 
  •  American association for the advancement of athieism 
  •  American humanist association 
  • Association of athiests and freethinkers. 

Key Movies: 

  •  religulous 
  •  The unbelievers 
  •  Jesus camp 
  •  Prophets prey 

Outro: *summarize Joel and Milo end arguments* I think that both sides have………………Valid Arguments. Tonight’s winner had this to say. Is mac and cheese a black thing? Pat Robertson, ladies and gentleman. If you are for Mega church then I suggest you get in touch with your local church to see how you can help out. If you want Mega churches outlawed entirely, then I suggest you also get in touch with them, and ask em what they’re up to.  If you decide to do nothing, then at the very least, keep arguing and talking about it. Because the only way we solve any controversial issue, is to argue about it. 

I’d like to thank you all for joining us, and thanks milo and Joel for your thoughts on the subject. If you want YOUR voice counted amongst those that argue, then get at us on social media @argumentsvalid on twitter and valid.arguments on Instagram, or if you think social media is just as evil as Bone spurs, please feel free to call and leave us a voicemail, the number is on the website ValidArguments.org. And if you like the show please leave us a rating and review, and tell your friends to argue with us as well. and please join us in two weeks for more arguments for you. We hope to disagree with you soon. 

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